Interesting post and I've been pondering this myself. Our Nubians get dehorned because that's the conventional wisdom. But I will admit to hating the whole thing and wishing we didn't have to do it. I'd love to see stories about dairies that aren't doing it and are happy with the results. It is clearly painful for the kids. Yes, they probably seem fine after a day or two, but I don't like causing anything pain if I don't have to.

Hello, El Dragon.  Really appreciate your taking the time to get to the bottom of this.  Its pretty bad in the media when real farmers are not allowed to talk or asked their opinion.   I am glad you solicited Temple Grandin's views.  Dr. Grandin is much admired by many dairy farmers for her research into animal care and well being.  We are fourth generation to farm with about 65 milk cows.  Our cows' health and comfort comes first.  This is both because of our love for our cows and also because only cows who are well treated will produce and grow well.  It is absolutely necessary to dehorn.  In my lifetime, I have seen undehorned animals on neighbor's farms gore eachother, drawing blood or resulting in serious injuries.  On one occasion, a neighbor called when two pastured cows fought with horns locked and one ripped the other's udder open needing scores of stitches, the victim cow nearly bled to death.  Only the neighbor's quick thinking of holding the udder together with clothes pins till the vet got there saved the cow.  Another cow was gored in the eye resulting in blindness.  Cows have a social pecking order, the dominant cows will try to boss the others around physically and that includes use of horns.  Also, horns can pose a real safety problem to the farmers themselves.  Getting bashed by a pointed horn several inches long is like getting stabbed.  With incredibly low milk prices (half of what cost the farmer to actually produce the milk in the summer of 2009), farmers' kids often handle cows and do the work.  A thirteen year old is no match for a 1200 pound cow with horns, even if the cow inadvertently hits the farmer or child. (Yes, NY's labor laws were amended so farm kids could work longer hours).  So, when I hear animal rights people or people who have never been a mile within a cow say what should be done with horns, I SHUDDER!  Its well known in the farm community that the urban media and political people have great control over the fate of dairy farmers, especially in urban states like New York.  

ANESTHESIA:  As to anesthesia, this is something good farmers should be using.  When I was a kid, (decades ago) nobody used anesthesia, it was not even known as available to the average farmer.  Now, both local and general anesthesia is available to help the calf during anesthesia.  First, there is Lidocaine (like what your dentist gives you).  It can be injected around the horn button.  Then, when the horn burner is applied, the calf will not feel it.  Even better is a general anesthesia given by an injection.  This knocks the animal out totally so they do not remember the dehorning process.  Please note though, that like any anesthesia, general anesthesia carries a (slight) risk of the animal having a severe adverse reaction like death.  My sister is a veterinarian who has been trying to show dairy farmers she works with how to use Lidocaine at least when dehorning.  It is better that the calf not react in pain, jumping around and flailing, for this can also result in injury to the calf and to the farmer who is doing this procedure.  Think of how it feels to get a horse kick in the shins, can result in broken bones!   I do have a problem with some of the large farms where I have seen workers who don't care about the animal and are very rough while doing the dehorning.  It seems that on more of the family farms, where the farmer Herself is doing the dehorning, it is done in a way that is more careful of the calf.  Anesthesia is not prohibitively expensive.  My sister just told me it is about $5 per animal for the anesthesia product itself.  If a farmer gets it from a veterinarian whose farmcall fee would probably be at least $50.  Readers should keep in mind that during 2009, dairy farmers had to produce a full 100 pounds of milk to get $11 to $13. (8.6 pounds to a gallon of milk I believe).  There are so many farmers I know who do not even go to the dentist anymore or get medicine for themselves since they are getting further and further behind financially with the low milk prices to farmers. (hey, the prices continued high in the urban stores thanks to Big Milk until quite recently).  This issue will get emotional with dairy farmers, because we are coming off of the worst year in the history that we can remember.  I have watched adults crying in despair asking legislators to help, children at the fair who stare off in space wondering if this is the last time they will attend a fair, farmers who have put their lives work into a farm to face being evicted now and yes, even suicides first in California, then Midwest and now in New York.  Throughout it all hearings were held at the State and federal level.  As to the hearings I attended or got transcripts from NOT A SINGLE urban consumer group spoke out in support of the dairy farmers.  Only one environmental group (Otsego 2000) spoke out in support of the family farmers at federal hearings in 2009 held here in Upstate, NY.  In past years, we watched urban power people, like Mark Green, former NYC Public Advocate, excoriate NY's dairy farmers when they asked for fair milk prices.  We've watched social justice people demand fair trade prices for cocoa and coffee.  Yet, absolute and unabated SILENCE when it comes to a fair trade price for dairy farmers.  NYC's Food Pledge demands a fair wage for laborers in the food sector, yet never mentions that farmers ought to be able to have a return for their work and massive investment in land.  So, yes, when non-farmers start to complain about the dairy industry, I want to ask where they have been all this time????? WHERE?  WHERE? WHERE?  Urban America pretty much turned its back on rural America long ago.......When will communications between real farmers and people who care about where their food comes from and the animals and farmers of America begin? Real farmers are not allowed in the mass media (have you ever seen Ellen Degeneres or Oprah have a real farmer on?)  Did the recent show on the factory farm show how other farmers in the surrounding community working to dehorn the calf using better practices or interview a veterinarian who has worked to teach a better way?   I think you do a great job with your Fair Food Fight twittering. You are truly fair when you reach out to the people most impacted and whose lives are intertwined with their animals.   Wish there were more people like you, El Dragon.  Thanks, NY Farmer

Have handled both cows & goats, horned and dehorned. A dairy doe with an attitude can seriously hurt another doe...and if multiple does 'gang up' on one lameness, shoulder injuries and other problems can and do happen. Additionally if a goat gets her head stuck in a fence she is HELPLESS against herdmates, dogs and predators. I balance a couple minutes of pain with the pain of being shredded alive, unable to run, hung up in a fence and there is no question.

Disbudding - calves and kids - is far and away safer in a herd situation. Anesthesia for a 70# dog said to be $70 for neutering - most calves are bigger than that when done. Further there are many things we can use on non-food animals that cannot be used on food animals. A promising heifer can - due to accident or illness - at any time be shifted to freezer heifer instead. Dehorning with a hot iron costs nothing but time - the cost of the iron. Even at $70 per animal it can be cost prohibitive.

Frankly the hot iron is IMO MUCH more humane than cutting them off. I've seen dairy does 'dehorned' with bands in which the center is live tissue and if it breaks off there is much more pain & blood. cutting off horns used to be standard husbandry procedure, MUCH more difficult on the animal. I had one with a scur needing vet care - the doe cost over $80 because it *had* to be done at a vet's - and even a small scur swelled up to where I thought I'd lose her. The hot iron use on youngsters heals quickly and is much more humane than other methods...even though I think most of us agree it's less than pleasant for both animal and human. Done right it's over - give them a bottle and electrolites, put some vet cream on it the next day and its much better than alternatives.

Also *any* time anethesia is used there is a strong chance of losing the animal.

Taking it further...what about the practice of castrating animals without anesthesia?  I watched a Dirty Jobs segment recently where they were biting 'em off - seriously! Have a look:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QErgjt_GYBk

Oh, and over @ thepioneerwoman she talks about calf nuts:  "Calf Nut Alert. I'm sorry. Sharing is my life." http://bit.ly/8FF4rw

Leesie [SeasLife on Twitter]

I hope some organic and grassfed livestock farmers chime in about how/if you dehorn. Till then, I'll offer up an article written by Jim Riddle, head of the University of Minnesota's Organic Center here in Minnesota and an expert in organic standards and farming practices - and a farmer himself.

Physical Alterations Regulations for Organic Dairy and Livestock in the United States

According to the National Organic Program regulations, physical alterations to livestock may be performed, if they are done to promote an animal's welfare and in a manner that minimizes pain and stress. Before performing physical alterations, the producer should check with the certifying agent to make sure that the practice is allowed, and describe the practice and reasons for its use in the operation's Organic System Plan.

I know that this is off the subject but I need to make this clear. El Dragon, you commented about a persons question about drugs in the milk or for the pain. This is VERY important. There are NEVER drugs in ANY milk. All milk is tested for drug residues. No milk enters the food supply with drugs in it.

Calves are like children and very resiliant. I feel debudding is the best method, done when the calf is very young before very much of the horn is developed. I love the idea of administering local to reduce pain and stress on the animal. Research has found that stress can cause a reduction of marbling in beef cattle, because at least in the midwest and west dairy steers find thier way to feedlots.  My cattle experience comes from beef, but this is also an area that overlaps dairy. On a dairy farm where there is a fairly steady supply of calves, a vet can teach a person about administering the local and the debudding procedure, resulting in a reduced costs for the dairy and freeing up the vet. The lack of large animal vets is going to become a problem for animal producers and possibly in food safety in the near future. As for casterating cattle, banding the scrotum takes roughly seconds to do when done in conjunction to vaccination when the animal is already restrained.

I'll try to follow when you get into milk prices. I have a couple of ideas that I would like to interject in it that might also carry on to local/organic/free range arena.